3 weeks ago a few friends and I decided to make a joe cell...
The results were fasinating, so we went on to make an electrolysis
unit of the same design. We decided as patience is required to make
joe cells, we would continue with the joe cell experiment and move on
to some 'basic' electrolysis in the hope that we could use the extra
current from a cars alternator to improve efficiency (like the hydro
boost system, but bigger!)
316 STAINLESS STEEL
Luckily, we know lots of people that use 316L stainless steel, so off
we went to raid a few scrap bins from local companies...
STAINLESS PARTS LIST:
1 x 11" by 5" Tube
1 x 7" by 4" Tube
2 x 7" by 3" Tube
1 x 7" by 2" Tube
1 x 13" Circle 5mm Thick
1 x 3m threaded bar
32 x Nuts for the threaded bar
4 x bolts for feet (on the base)
1 x massive bolt for the negative electrode
1 x 12" square of 1mm sheet
2 x 3mm by wahtever (it is scrap) plates to use as lids
Solid O-RING Rubber (spacing tubes)
5mm deep O-RING for the base bolt
3mm Neoprene Sheet
1mm Reinforced Rubber
High Pressure Tube and Connectors
Pressure Gauge 1bar
Pressure Cut Off Switch 15 psi
Acetylene Torch (to use the gas for welding and cutting)
1 x pair of jump leads or cable with crocodile clips
1 x rubbish car battery
caustic soda (99.99% sodium hydroxide)
HOW TO BUILD (in brief)
The tubes were positioned on the large stainless circle base, marked
and removed, the circle base was then drilled and tapped to accomodate
the various pipe fittings.
A piece of stainless sheet was cut to make a star shape which is used
to hold the inner tube to the centre bolt (which is also the negative
terminal) see joe cell designs...
The concentric tubes were then fitted together and held in place with
small pieces of solid o-ring rubber. 5" outer tube, with the 4", 3"
and 2" tubes inside, leaving 4cm of free space underneath.
The spare 3" tube is just a flashback bubbler, probably the most
important thing in the system, designed like a bong. The gas coming in
bubbles through the water and the gas going out doesn't. Flashbacks do
occur as acetylene torch arresters do not quite stop the Browns Gas
(Hydroxy, Oxyhydros, HHO...)
The threaded bar was cut into equal lengths (4 x 13" and 4 x 11") and
the whole system is then bolted together. The pressure gauge is fitted
to the bubbler, along with a tube to the acetylene torch.
The cutting torch is amazing...
We bubbled the gas into a full bottle of inverted water to measure the
displacement and therefore the volume of gas produced
Using a current limiting (brand new) power supply and a high quality
(brand new) multimeter we discovered we were producing between 60 and
100 litres of gas per hour with between 12 and 20amps at 12 volts. The
results varied tremendously as you can see, based on electrolyte
concentrations and temperature, the warmer the better.
These results seemed quite promising so we asked an electrical
engineer to do the same power/production test with us and he concluded
60 litres = 100Wh = 1.6Wh per litre
This is totally rounded down at every stage to give the worst possible
results(ie worst litre production figures used)
Then I noticed Kanarev's results for highly efficient electrolysis:
1000 litres = 4 KWh = 4Wh per litre
We fitted the gas genertor to a forklift truck, set up to run on
propane. The truck tried to start but didn't seem to have enough gas.
To solve this problem we safely filled a propane can with Brown's Gas
and then reconnected it to the truck. It ran really smooth!
WELDING AND CUTTING
The flame is like a laser, ultra sharp piont and very controllable.
It is true what you read on the web, the flame is not that hot but
when it hits the surface of something it reaches whatever temperature
is required to melt, burn, etc...
At least 50% of the people involved have high level degrees and other
qualifications suitable for this kind of experimentation, but to be
honest, no one thought it would work so well... The physics books must
be full of lies! And it easy to see why, if every physics, maths or
chemistry student new that you could 'easily' run a car, cook and heat
your house with water, with no environmental impact and save money, no
one would be pissing about with GREENPEACE and FRIENDS OF THE EARTH...
If anyone decides to post negative remarks regarding this project,
please remember, we have done it, it works, it has been checked and
for less than a days work and £200 max, you could help to save the
We've been lied to all of our lives, the same people who censor our newspapers, also censor our history books and censor our text books.
Chemistry professors will argue blue faced that I can't do this, yet there's one from 1966.
Did you know the first internal combustion engine was made in 1805?
But we didn't have any oil, or refined fuel, and a diesel compression engine was a long way off. No oil? No compression? Hmm but they could electrolysise water, after all witches had been rounded up and destroyed for just this kind of behaviour for hundreds of years previous.
Last edited by catfish on Sat Aug 19, 2006 8:18 am; edited 1 time in total
Tue Jun 13, 2006 6:47 am
Joined: 10 Jun 2006 Posts: 140 Location: the forbidden zone
wow. and you have gotten a forklift to run on the brown gas? thats awesome. but now what?
I'm telling everyone about it.
I've got my car doing 50 mpg with a little system fitted in my car.
This system http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/ is just two stainless bolts in a drainpipe, the tubes my friends and I have made are much better.
I've posted stuff all over the place so I'm just gonna cut and paste now from other sites I've posted on and e-mails I've sent so apologies if I repeat myself:
Since making the torch we have discovered that much smaller tubes can be used. If you use just three tubes of 75mm length, with the biggest diameter being 50mm, then two smaller concentric tubes with no more than 2mm gap between the walls.
Put spacers in between the tubes so they cannot touch each other.
Connect a wire to the bottom of your centre tube
Connect a wire to the top of your outside tube
Now put the tubes in a container tall enough to cover the top of the tubes, like a coffee jar, then fill it with water
Connect the outside tube to the positive of a 12v car battery
Connect the inside to the negative
For instant results you can add a little rock salt or pure caustic soda but with patience the water will produce gradually more and more gas without electrolyte, but if it's slow use salt. I keep meaning to use an acid electrolyte but I've only just remembered it now.
Two of the above devices in Lucozade pop bottles were producing the same amount of gas as the big torch.
For a simple proof you can do the same as above but just use one tube a jar and a stainless bolt, connect the bolt as negative and tube as positive. This is small but you will get bubbles that you can explode with a lighter!
Use 316 food grade stainless steel, this has very little magnetism which helps the electrolysis process.
Thanks for your interest and I really do hope you give it a try, the hydroxy yahoo group seems to be disinformation, they're obsessed with flat plates but I promise you tubes are MUCH better.
You may think I'm banging on about this but you know I must have convinced twenty people about the truth of 9/11 already because I start by showing them how my car runs on water.
It's amazing how people are much easier to convince about government conspiracy if you show them how they've been lied to about water.
I sincerely believe this is on-topic and I hope you guys will get in touch with me and see this as a valuable tool in waking up our hibernating population.
If you've looked at the welder and think it's amazing then you may be amazed to know that the same amount of gas can be made with just two lucozade bottles of water and much smaller stainless tubes.
Also we've made a water booster for our cars a passat and audi coupe. The passat is an old F reg diesel and is producing exhaust gasses like fresh mountain air, isn't struggling like it did (poor old girl) and uses noticably less fuel.
The real daddy is the petrol audi coupe 2.3 litre which has unexplicably gone 60 miles on £5.60 and still has some left in the tank. And it was Optimax fuel so I never even got a litre for my quid!
This gas can run a car. I want to share this with as many people as I can before I am stopped which is inevitable. The system like the one we've made will cost you less than a hundred quid!
Get in touch by email or PM. I'm gonna tour the country in the next few weeks and I'll come see anyone who is interested in this and show them how to stick two fingers up to these greedy oil smurfs!
Remember I don't want any money I just want to share this technology, and show people how easy it is, so they can do it for themselves.
Last edited by catfish on Fri Sep 01, 2006 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
I posted this on another forum in the UK and i got a response by somebody called LightningEd who works with IC engines. Here it is: -
Ok I have now read those "reports" So it looks to me that this system generates power stores it to the batteries then generates on demand by the already stored energy some H/O2 gas that is then injected into the engine.
This totally agrees with what I have said,
1, there is not enough power to produce this in realtime. - here the alternator is uprated - By how much?
2, there needs to be a store for the energy - lead acid batteries. - this implies that the alternator cannot supply enough power on its own. - As i already said.
3, the system will be limited to the time taken to charge the batteries enough to produce the hydrogen/oxygen gas, and once used up you will have to drive without it again (using extra fuel to charge the batteries again) untill you use it the next time.
This is nothing more than a hybrid. Its a million miles away from a car powered by water.
Now I have stopped laughing - seriously it really is a joke here is why (quite strange as I have just had to write an almost exact post in another forum - coincidence?!)...
First of all to produce hydrogen and oxygen requires alot of energy. If done correctly it can be relativly efficient BUT let me show you this:
1KG of hydrogen Hydrogen has an energy content when reacting with oxygen of 140,000,000 Joules per kilo. One Joule is 1W/Second. So 140,000,000/3600 (1hr) = 38.8 Kw/hr.
Simply by the law of conservation of energy, (and the fact you produce oxygen which you dont want for this process) therefor you can say it takes at LEAST 38.8 KW (+inefficiences and wasted by products) of energy to produce this 1KG of hydrogen.
Let me put it to you this way, an internal combustion engine in a car is typically around 32% efficient. So, if it were possible to run an IC engine directly of hydrogen 68% would be lost as heat etc (im simplfing allot here) of this 32% of wasted power part of this will be used to drive the alternator, which is what generates the electrical power for your car. Typically these have an output of 55-85Amps or lets say a MAX of 3672000 Joules/hr
If we take a typical car engine of around 80BHP that equates to around 58 Kw of usefull power so lets now take our 32% efficiency, and this tells us approximately that our 80hp car at its max power rating requires 181KW of energy. So with 1KG of hydrogen = 38.8Kw, we need 4.5KG of hydrogen to last 1hr at full power.
To produce this 4.5KG we need if we could do it 100% efficient 651,600,000 joules of electricity umm but holdon - the cars alternator can only provide 3,672,000 =
Its simply not possible to "simply" convert a car to run from water - unless you happen to own a personal nuclear power station inthe boot of your car.
Anyway, however good an idea this is, it is clearly NOT a replacement for fossil fuels. It is marketed as an additional agent to be used with existing fuels (just take a look at the website and you'll see).
I am afraid that the low efficiency, explosive nature and problems with renewing the power source creating the HHO gas - render this idea to be very problematic.
okay i went there and left a post. I'm not in the business of debating whether or not this works though, I absolutely know it does. If Ed gets in touch I'll arrange a meet and show him, the same as I'm eager to show anyone.
Sat Aug 19, 2006 12:56 pm
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8624 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
catfish: Until this gets widespread you'd best hide your whereabouts.
A cousin of mine knew someone with a garage full of lawnmowers that ran on saltwater. One day he paid a visit, noticed the garage empty and his friend wouldn't talk about it. Another person developed a carbeurator that got a limo 80+ mpg. The car blew up and he was killed -no fault of the carb.