Vitamin B12 can only be derived from meat and dirt.
I'm opposed to taking isolated nutrients myself. I think the movement should be more concerned about raising animals the right way than eliminating them from our diets and possibly making people mentally ill by it. I think that's the primary agenda isn't it. It also seems odd to me to see vegans with cats (carnivores) that like to toy with their pray killing it slowly.
As a animal lover, i want the meat industry to be abolished, but to be realisic, it probably will never happen. But what HAVE TO happen, is that the animals get treated in a MUCH better way.
I wish that even people who eat meat were more aware of what they ate, and that they did try to make a difference. It doesn't change by itself. The more who try to change whats going on, the more likley it's going to happen ''soon''. I wish there were more farms like in the old days, but the big industries are taking over and it goes out on the poor animals.
It's so easy buying the meat in some ''fancy'' package and close your eyes to whats really happening.
Isn't funny how it was a bad thing what Hitler did, but we do the same now, and its ok 'cause its ''just'' animals.
Tue Aug 01, 2006 5:53 am
Sponsor
crystalja'
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 40 Location: upstate NY
I have a little to say on the topic. I was a vegetarian from age 4-16, and a strict vegan from age17-26.I started eating meat close to three years ago. Oh yea from age 9-11, I followed the Macrobiotic diet with my family.( so tecnicly I was not vegan or vegetarian becouse I ate fish) I am transfering my experience as a macrobiotic to the section on cancer. Any ways, Eveyone's different.
We just have to listen to our bodies, and i don't mean with just our ears. If you notice somthing is wrong, find out what it is. Dizziness, Foged thinking or ear problem, any ailments...find out if theres somthing missing.I have a lot of book smarts when it come to health and what we need, but even when I was vegan, just becouse I knew somthing didn't mean I did it. I knew I needed the B6 &B12,and good fats , But didn't alway take it in supplement, or eat lots of brown rice becouse I knew it was a good B sourse. Or could I aford flax or hemp oil or plandt pased DHA... You might should though. How are you going to be able to function at an optimal level and do the things you want to do if your not functioning 100%. That's one of the importaint things about eating a animal/ dairy free daily. Somtimes you need to supplement , Or make sure your getting in the nutrience yoiu need though the right food.
I work on an organic produce farm and I it is true, slugs and ladie bugs have died. I have unknowingly drown ladie bugs. Once,when washing my lettuce making sure to look though every leaf of letutuce to insure cleaness, and still wound up choping the head off a slug. It sucked and I felt bad for a second, but I moved on. I know I would not intentionally harm an animal, and do give props to those who are vegan. I also have to give props to thos e who raise thier own food, plant or animal.
I have often read how we should say a quick prayer when we take food from a plant or tree, so I do that. It would however be perfect for everyone who can to have thier own garden.
When I was 4 and we become vegetarian, it was becouse we tried raising our own chicen and I peeked though the window to see my dad cutting off the heads of the chicked I had helped raise and loved...I used to feed them....I know this sound gross, but I didn't know any better and would feed them slugs . I only did it becouse I seen a chicken eat one, so thout they might need to eat them. To make a long story alittle bit shorter, we quit eating meat becouse of the whole crying thou dinner thing ,I guess. JUst make sure you are indead getting every thing you need. Brown rice and beens, even sea vegetables if you can.
Vitamin B12 can only be derived from meat and dirt.
I'm opposed to taking isolated nutrients myself. I think the movement should be more concerned about raising animals the right way than eliminating them from our diets and possibly making people mentally ill by it. I think that's the primary agenda isn't it. It also seems odd to me to see vegans with cats (carnivores) that like to toy with their pray killing it slowly.
As a animal lover, i want the meat industry to be abolished, but to be realisic, it probably will never happen. But what HAVE TO happen, is that the animals get treated in a MUCH better way.
I wish that even people who eat meat were more aware of what they ate, and that they did try to make a difference. It doesn't change by itself. The more who try to change whats going on, the more likley it's going to happen ''soon''. I wish there were more farms like in the old days, but the big industries are taking over and it goes out on the poor animals.
It's so easy buying the meat in some ''fancy'' package and close your eyes to whats really happening.
Isn't funny how it was a bad thing what Hitler did, but we do the same now, and its ok 'cause its ''just'' animals.
Good post and agree with you but am a very happy meat eater and will stay that way!!!
Also i love animals and spend quite a bit of free time on my friends farm. I have learned through this time that even cows have their own personalities and my mate has one cow who he will never sell as she helps him heard the other cows over!!! Beleive it or not, and children could even ride on her!!!!! She(miranda) is fantastic and i love calling her over for her to run to me like a dog BUT that doesnt mean i wont eat a cow (of course not miranda) but one of the ones that tries to kill us while we give the injections to them (against tics etc), and i see nothing wrong with this but then again he shoots the cow straight in the brain with a shotgun and this is as painless as it can get!!!! Unlike the scumbags of meatfactories etc who electricute the cows!!!
Also off topic, he had a sheep that was so friendly that you would swear it was a dog in sheap clothing hehehe you could call it and pat it and it loved it!!!!
Sorry got off topic a little but what im trying to say is i love animals but i also like my meat products and this wont change, BUT there is allways a humane way to do everything and even the meat tastes better if you didnt electricute the cow!!!!
Cheers
Chris
Good post and agree with you but am a very happy meat eater and will stay that way!!!
Also i love animals and spend quite a bit of free time on my friends farm. I have learned through this time that even cows have their own personalities and my mate has one cow who he will never sell as she helps him heard the other cows over!!! Beleive it or not, and children could even ride on her!!!!! She(miranda) is fantastic and i love calling her over for her to run to me like a dog BUT that doesnt mean i wont eat a cow (of course not miranda) but one of the ones that tries to kill us while we give the injections to them (against tics etc), and i see nothing wrong with this but then again he shoots the cow straight in the brain with a shotgun and this is as painless as it can get!!!! Unlike the scumbags of meatfactories etc who electricute the cows!!!
Also off topic, he had a sheep that was so friendly that you would swear it was a dog in sheap clothing hehehe you could call it and pat it and it loved it!!!!
Sorry got off topic a little but what im trying to say is i love animals but i also like my meat products and this wont change, BUT there is allways a humane way to do everything and even the meat tastes better if you didnt electricute the cow!!!!
Cheers
Chris
Thank you :]
and exactly.
I would never eat an animal, even if i liked meat. For me it's wrong to eat who you love.
Animals are amazing, and there's no such thing as a dumb animal. It's sad how farm animals get underestimated.
I'd love to have a farm, but im scared i'd end up with a thousand animals in the end. I'd be breaking into slaughterhouses and carry them back home with me;P
Miranda sounds like a darling ;]
Me and a friend were talking about this the other day and we came to the conclusion that, its one thing to still eat animals when knowing how they are treated, and there's another thing eating them, and try to deny what's going on. People shouldn't close their eyes. But it's all about the clean conscience.
Like you, you admit you still eat them, but you do want a change, and that's how everyone should be.
Im from Norway, and the thing i always hear from people is, ''but it's not as bad as the other countries''. It kind of pissses me off. It just shows how naive people are.
Most people think that the animals get put in a gass chamber, and then shot, or whatever, but the truth is, since everything is a fast production, and they want to earn as much money as they possible can, it goes out on the animal, both in living conditions and in the slaughter house.Like they would never use bullets ( too expensive).
Every (?) slaughtehouse is supposed to do this as humane as possible (sure), and thats why they have a gass chamber for some of the animals. But what they do is.. like a animal is supposed to be ''so so'' many minutes in the chamber for it to have an effect, but what they do is make the minutes less, so that they get to kill more animals in a smaller time limit. Time is money, so they don't really care about what the animals are going through. Many of the animals come out from the chamber alive, or half alive, and then they maybe shoot it with a bolt,or cut in the throat with a knife, and in most cases, the bolt is shot the wrong way,or they slit the throat the wrong way, which 'causes more pain. And this is just a little part of what's going on in the modern meat industry. Im pretty sure many of the slaugherhouses don't even use the gass chambers 'cause it will save them MUCH more time if they don't. There's a reason why the slaughter houses are closed from the public, and why they are VERY strickt about everything.
Tue Aug 01, 2006 9:56 am
crystalja'
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 40 Location: upstate NY
for vegans: tempeh, fermented soybean , and some sprouts contain vitaminB-12
I do know theres a vegan vitamin/ herb company,If any ones interested I can find out the name of it,that has a good b-12 supplement. And also, most solgar vitamin are vegan and gluten free
Last edited by crystalja' on Wed Aug 02, 2006 11:30 am; edited 1 time in total
ive always liked the native americans position on the subject. they worshiped animals as sacred and asked for thier forgiveness when killing the animal for food. they tried to use every part of the animal and wasted nothing. they killed what they needed to survive and to help keep balance in the habitat. i think balance is key. because plants are not of a higher intellegence doesnt mean they are not alive and do not deserve the same respect as an animal. in my opinion everything thats alive contributes to the life force of the planet, and plants have a rooted ground level network of consciousness.
this reminds me of an experiment i had seen as a child where scientists had a room of plants, and they sent someone in an adjacent room close by to destroy a plant. they were able to detect with a polygraph, connected to the plants in the adjacent room, that when the plant killer entered the room the plants knew who he was by the plants effecting the results of the polygraph. just something interesting i will always remember. /shrug
Tue Aug 01, 2006 11:13 am
Sponsor
crystalja'
Joined: 30 Jul 2006 Posts: 40 Location: upstate NY
barkingmonkeye wrote:
ive always liked the native americans position on the subject. they worshiped animals as sacred and asked for thier forgiveness when killing the animal for food. they tried to use every part of the animal and wasted nothing. they killed what they needed to survive and to help keep balance in the habitat. i think balance is key. because plants are not of a higher intellegence doesnt mean they are not alive and do not deserve the same respect as an animal. in my opinion everything thats alive contributes to the life force of the planet, and plants have a rooted ground level network of consciousness.
this reminds me of an experiment i had seen as a child where scientists had a room of plants, and they sent someone in an adjacent room close by to destroy a plant. they were able to detect with a polygraph, connected to the plants in the adjacent room, that when the plant killer entered the room the plants knew who he was by the plants effecting the results of the polygraph. just something interesting i will always remember. /shrug
I'm with you on that one...the old indian way, I do that when I'm harvesting veggies...give thema little blessing.
I wanted to ask if you ever read any thing on the experiment they did with water. It to was very interesting. Looking under a microscope, Happy water, was told it was loved and compasionate to it... appeared like snow flakes. The wter that was hated and got a lot of negative feed back, were just blobs of water. Think about it. Out bodies are make up of how much water???
Vegans tend to point out the digestive differences between herbivores and carnivores. Humans, rats and dogs are omnivores.
Vegans tend to tout their lifestyle as healthier; so is there a logical reason they're more prone to candida infections and B-12 deficiency?
The candida infections may be a result of the increase in carbohydrates that often occurs when someone who is not entirely prepared, switches to a vegan diet. Vegetarians and vegans often will load up on grain based foods, which is not good at all for their health and longevity because it causes the body to utilize more insulin and, in the long run, insulin de-sensatization leading to increased rate of aging and diabetes.
As for the B-12 deficiency, I don't know enough to say much about that one. I thought B-12 was easily obtained from Brocolli and other fresh green veggies. I guess there's something else going on there.
madthumbs wrote:
I understand a lot of vegans are as such simply because of the nature of the meat industry. Is raising your own goats, lambs, etc bad? (they make for good lawn mowers too).
I'm genuinely curious about why people are vegan and so vocal about it.
I personally eat very little meat (mostly fish).
I am not a vegan, rather a Piscetarian, so I cannot speak as a vegan; my understanding is that it has alot to do with their ethical standing towards animals. It seems as if, done properly, a vegan diet may be healthier than a vegetarian or piscetarian diet, although there is an essential amino acid that cannot be obtained from vegetables.
If your a meat eater, you may want to see a DVD by Dr. G. Edwanrd Griffin, called "The Science and Politics of Cancer". It is not about meat eating, but he does mention the conection between meat eating and cancer and why. Very informative!!
His web sites are:
www.realityzone.com www.freedomforceinternational.org
Hi, I'm new here and was reading this thread because I am a vegitarian/freegan.
I was pretty unhealhy before I became vegitarian, and have noticed a big difference in my health since.
The real reason I'm posting is because while reading this thread, I was very impressed with the respect everyone gives eachother here, while making their points. In most animal welfare related forums, everybody is extremely disrespectfull and malicious towords each other. It's cool that this place is'nt like that.
Hi, I'm new here and was reading this thread because I am a vegitarian/freegan.
Freegans are cool. You've never had fun if you've never stolen food.
I have lots of Vegan friends, but I get so sick of people who care about animals so much they don't have time for anything else. I mean, seriously.
It's their own choice. It shouldn't have to be a problem that they put much time in to it. If they want to and it pleases them, why not? I can understand why people do it because seriously, animalwelfare is a big issue and you get sick and tired of everything thats going on, so no wonder much time and effort goes into this.If you're devoted to something.. that's what happens. No one can really understand it unless they have the same views.
Just because someone doesn't equally share the amount of conviction that some people do regarding animal welfare, doesn't mean they don't care. Just because people still eat meat, doesn't me they condone torture of animals.
Vegans tend to point out the digestive differences between herbivores and carnivores. Humans, rats and dogs are omnivores.
Vegans tend to tout their lifestyle as healthier; so is there a logical reason they're more prone to candida infections and B-12 deficiency?
The candida infections may be a result of the increase in carbohydrates that often occurs when someone who is not entirely prepared, switches to a vegan diet. Vegetarians and vegans often will load up on grain based foods, which is not good at all for their health and longevity because it causes the body to utilize more insulin and, in the long run, insulin de-sensatization leading to increased rate of aging and diabetes.
As for the B-12 deficiency, I don't know enough to say much about that one. I thought B-12 was easily obtained from Brocolli and other fresh green veggies. I guess there's something else going on there.
madthumbs wrote:
I understand a lot of vegans are as such simply because of the nature of the meat industry. Is raising your own goats, lambs, etc bad? (they make for good lawn mowers too).
I'm genuinely curious about why people are vegan and so vocal about it.
I personally eat very little meat (mostly fish).
I am not a vegan, rather a Piscetarian, so I cannot speak as a vegan; my understanding is that it has alot to do with their ethical standing towards animals. It seems as if, done properly, a vegan diet may be healthier than a vegetarian or piscetarian diet, although there is an essential amino acid that cannot be obtained from vegetables.
I want to add something here. A lot of vegans do eat too much of carbs but a great deal eat A LOT of sugar. Many vegan foods that try to simulate non-vegan foods have crap in them!
Sugar is a huge cause of candida. I suffered from sinusistis for years. It is very painful. I could not get rid of it. It is a form of candida. White sugar causes so many health problems and robs the body of nutrients. So if a vegan is getting just enough b-12 and eats refined sugar, they would become difficient.
I was a vegan for 4-5 years. I am a vegetarian now but eat a largely vegan diet. Processed foods that are loaded with simple carbs like white flour and sugar are often consumed by vegans. If you want to be a vegan or vegetarian, I would say you have to really like the taste of fresh food and vegetables and not to do it strickly to avoid meat and dairy.
Last edited by starchild on Fri Dec 22, 2006 11:56 pm; edited 1 time in total
I want to add something here. A lot of vegans do eat too much of carbs but a great deal eat A LOT of sugar. Many vegan foods that try to simulate non-vegan foods have crap in them!
Sugar is a huge cause of candida. I suffered from sinusistis for years. It is very painful. I could not get rid of it. It is a form of candida. White sugar causes so many health problems and robs the body of nutrients. So if a vegan is getting just enough b-12 and eats refined sugar, they would become difficient.
I was a vegan for 4-5 years. I am a vegitarian now but eat a largely vegan diet. Processed foods that are loaded with simple carbs like white flour and sugar are often consumed by vegans. If you want to be a vegan or vegitarian, I would say you have to really like the taste of fresh food and vegetables and not to do it strickly to avoid meat and dairy.
Very valid points there. I'm sure you'll like this link:
Sugar destroys the body in so many ways and just being a vegan is not the answer to good health. A good rule that I follow is if it wasn't here 10,000 years ago don't eat it.
BUT that doesnt mean i wont eat a cow (of course not miranda) but one of the ones that tries to kill us while we give the injections to them (against tics etc), and i see nothing wrong with this but then again he shoots the cow straight in the brain with a shotgun and this is as painless as it can get!!!! Unlike the scumbags of meatfactories etc who electricute the cows!!!
