Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 9 Location: United States / Israel
Re: Jewish Racism towards Non-Jews as expressed in the Talmu
madthumbs wrote:
Quote:
"The modern Jew is the product of the Talmud..."
"Babylonian Talmud", published by the Boston Talmud Society, p. XII
The Jews refer to the remainder of Earths inhabitants, the non-Jewish peoples, as "Gentiles", "Goyim". Let's see what the Jewish Talmud teaches the Jews concerning the non-Jewish majority, i.e. those who are not part of Jahve's "Chosen People":
"The Jews are called human beings, but the non-Jews are not humans. They are beasts."
Talmud: Baba mezia, 114b
"The Akum (non-Jew) is like a dog. Yes, the scripture teaches to honor the the dog more than the non-Jew."
Ereget Raschi Erod. 22 30
"Even though God created the non-Jew they are still animals in human form. It is not becoming for a Jew to be served by an animal. Therfore he will be served by animals in human form."
Midrasch Talpioth, p. 255, Warsaw 1855
"A pregnant non-Jew is no better than a pregnant animal."
Coschen hamischpat 405
"The souls of non-Jews come from impure sprits and are called pigs."
Jalkut Rubeni gadol 12b
"Although the non-Jew has the same body structure as the Jew, they compare with the Jew like a monkey to a human."
Schene luchoth haberith, p. 250 b
"If you eat with a Gentile, it is the same as eating with a dog."
Tosapoth, Jebamoth 94b
"If a Jew has a non-Jewish servant or maid who dies, one should not express sympathy to the Jew. You should tell the Jew: "God will replace 'your loss', just as if one of his oxen or asses had died"."
Jore dea 377, 1
"Sexual intercourse between Gentiles is like intercourse between animals."
Talmud Sanhedrin 74b
"It is permitted to take the body and the life of a Gentile."
Sepher ikkarim III c 25
"It is the law to kill anyone who denies the Torah. The Christians belong to the denying ones of the Torah."
Coschen hamischpat 425 Hagah 425. 5
"A heretic Gentile you may kill outright with your own hands."
Talmud, Abodah Zara, 4b
"Every Jew, who spills the blood of the godless (non-Jews), is doing the same as making a sacrifice to God."
Thank you my dear for the enlightenment. Rabbis will be amazed to learn that their lifetime of Torah / Talmud study was so lacking in substance that they need a nazi or white supremicist to explain it's meanings. Your 'chapter and verse' quotes are so far from reality that I must assume your Torah / Talmud education is equal to your public scholastic achievements. This site is generally anti-racist rather than a 'Jewish' forum.
The Real Truth About The Talmud
Anti-Talmud accusations have a long history dating back to the 13th century when the associates of the Inquisition attempted to defame Jews and their religion [see Yitzchak Baer, A History of Jews in Christian Spain, vol. I pp. 150-185]. The early material compiled by hateful preachers like Raymond Martini and Nicholas Donin remain the basis of all subsequent accusations against the Talmud. Some are true, most are false and based on quotations taken out of context, and some are total fabrications [see Baer, ch. 4 f. 54, 82 that it has been proven that Raymond Martini forged quotations]. On the internet today we can find many of these old accusations being rehashed and this site is an attempt to correct the mistakes and put the true quotes into their proper perspective.
The accusations against the Talmud can be divided into four categories [see Hyam Maccoby, Judaism on Trial, pp. 23-38].
1] The Talmud considers itself holier than the Bible
2] The Talmud contains passages that are blasphemous against Jesus and Mary
The first two accusations are essentially frivolous. What business is it of Christians if the Jewish Talmud is considered holier than the Bible (which it isn't)? And if Jews do not take the account of the Christian NT to be totally historically accurate, so what? To fundamentalist Christians, EVERY other religion is considered blasphemous. Why should the Talmud be judged within the Christian religious framework? Of course, any Jewish book is blasphemous within that framework because Judaism does not accept Jesus as the messiah. The very accusation that the Jewish Talmud is blasphemous to Christianity is redundant.
3] The Talmud has ridiculous and immoral statements
The third accusation is one that Jews have to work out for themselves. Should a Jew believe in a book that makes foolish and obscene comments? That a Jew does should not be relevant to gentiles. In fact, the allegedly foolish and immoral statements in the Talmud are sometimes non-existent but usually allegorical. The Talmud and associated literature developed an entire genre of parables and allegorical sayings that, when understood, shed light on the mysteries of life. However, when inadequately translated and ripped from their context they seem silly.
Quote:
Dov Zlotnick, Introduction to Saul Lieberman's Greek in Jewish Palestine (1994), p. xx
Rabbinic texts that seem bizarre at first blush can become quite ordinary when properly understood. I remember Lieberman once being called by a popular national publication regarding a passage from the Talmud. To the caller, who was researching an article, the passage seemed silly. Its subject was the difference between a roll or a bundle of documents, and how each note of indebtedness was to be placed in relation to the other. After the Professor finished explaining the passage, the caller responded with surprise, "Why, this is reasonable!" "Of course," the Professor responded.
"Well, in that case," the caller replied, "I cannot use it."
4] The Talmud has laws that are racist and anti-gentile
The fourth accusation is the one on which I will be focussing. Because today's Orthodox Jews still lead their lives based on the laws contained in the Talmud, it is incumbent upon Jews to understand and explain that their religious laws are not racist or derogatory to gentiles. Jewish law, as contained in the Talmud, treats gentiles with the proper respect due to a person created in the image of G-d. Their property and lives are honored and any (mis)quotes from the Talmud indicating otherwise need to be seen in their original language and context.
I will be showing the ENTIRE passages in both their original Hebrew or Aramaic and in translation. I will also be providing a fuller context by bringing other quotations on the topics from other parts of the Talmud. After seeing all of the quotations, a proper judgement can be rendered. I will also be showing how Jewish commentators and legalists have understood these passages throughout history.
Even if a reader would believe that these talmudic quotations are racist, if Jews have always understood them differently then Jews cannot be considered racist. Even if someone can twist the words of the Talmud to be hateful, if Jews have always understood the Talmud in a non-hateful way then the argument is meaningless. The real exercise is to find the (allegedly racist) talmudic influence on Jews and Judaism and by perusing through the post-talmudic literature we can clearly find that this talmudic influence was not racist.
Is the Talmud racist or anti-gentile? No. But neither is it a universalist manifesto. It is a religious document written by those of the Jewish religion for others of the same faith. It favors Judaism over other religions and sets down rules on how to live in both an all-Jewish society and a mixed society. It legislates how to create vibrant Jewish communities while still maintaining respect for the gentile society. Universalists would have everyone be treated exactly equally and live in non-denominational communities. However, the Talmud, which is concerned for the survival of the Jewish religion, must weigh both the respect for humanity and the need for Jewish survival throughout thousands of years of minority-status.
What we will demonstrate is that the consideration for the Jewish community NEVER relegates those outside of this community to an inhuman status. Gentiles are ALWAYS respected and their rights are secured.
The anti-talmudic lies are exactly that - lies. The wisdom of the Talmud has sustained Judaism for thousands of years and perhaps its very success is what has engendered so much jealous hatred.
There are many lies circulating the internet about the Jewish Talmud. These allegations are supported by "direct quotations" from the Talmud that are frequently wrong or taken out of context. However, most people lack the scholarly background to verify these claims. Most people have no way of knowing that these accusation are false and malicious. What we are attempting is to demonstrate in detail how these accusations are both wrong and intentionally misleading. We are trying to show to the world the real truth about the Talmud.
"Our philosophy asserts that every human being is created in the image of the Lord and the primacy of integrity and honesty in all dealings without exception. I strongly repudiate any assertions in the name of Judaism that do not represent and reflect this philosophy."
- Rabbi Malkiel Kotler, dean of the world-renowned Lakewood Yeshiva, Dec. 16, 2003
Joined: 31 Mar 2007 Posts: 9 Location: United States / Israel
Max David wrote:
Mystica wrote:
What can't be accepted even by those who deny's religion in it's entirety is that ALL religions are racist, ALL religions have evolved and changed of the centuries ... NONE of them represent life or society as it was meant to be.
Pointing the finger and accusing one of doing what every other religion does (divide, and promote hate of differing 'opinions') is literally following religion and it's 'beliefs' .... you cannot accuse onother of racism and hate of others and not recognise it in every other religion.
Get over the religious BS and embrace the 'human race' ... constantly harping on Judaism promotes just as much hate as the 'so called Talmud' that isn't even read by most Jews unless provoked.
In the video "The other Israel" Ted Pike says himself that there are some Rabbis who have never read that book of the Talmud and many who didn't know it even existed until he and his counterparts found and exposed it.
Move away from religion altogether and study 'real' spirituality, and the wholesome way to THINK, and learn to love instead of hate. And accept that not everyone is going to have the same OPINION as your own.
Promoting hate is what the Super Elite do best and their best tool for that is religion ALL religions.
Good post.
All religious people are racist to an extent, but of course, so are people who aren't religious. But from all the religions I've learned about, I'm pretty sure that Reform Judaism is the least racist of them all. I could be wrong, though.
Their are those fundamentalists (esp. Christians) who maintain that if you do not believe in their idealogy bad things will happen to you after you die (you will burn in hell if you don't except Jesus). The same goes for fundamentalist Muslims...if you don't accept their Higher Power "Allah" the way Muslims do...bad things will happen to you after you die. Many other religious groups or cults are quite similar to these as well. I have a difficult time respecting individuals who believe this way. To me this is a form of religious racism, and is VERY close to the nazi ideology of superiority. These fundamentalist religious beings no matter who they maybe are no more than religious Nazis with a heavy "inferiority complex". It's what causes those fundamentalists to commit acts of violence. Muslims who murder Americans just because of their nationality, etc. Nazis that murdered Jews just because of who we were and still are in this day and age. Bigoted Christians who have murdered when others would not convert to their way of thinking. Can you see the similarity in superiority belief and the action that can and has followed.
I don't have a problem with those who are of a devout religion. What have a problem with is when it leads to feelings of superiority, intolerance, and ultimately violence!
Sat Mar 31, 2007 8:46 am
madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8599 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
Quote:
Thank you my dear for the enlightenment. Rabbis will be amazed to learn that their lifetime of Torah / Talmud study was so lacking in substance that they need a nazi or white supremicist to explain it's meanings.
The verses from the Torah speak for themselves; only misled religious people fall for the context nonsense to justify their beliefs. If you want to make your fellow Israelis safer: quit lying for them. There is no Jewish race, just a racist religion.
Sat Mar 31, 2007 9:08 am
Max David
Joined: 14 Feb 2007 Posts: 12 Location: Moorpark, CA
Mystica wrote:
Max David wrote:
Good post.
All religious people are racist to an extent, but of course, so are people who aren't religious. But from all the religions I've learned about, I'm pretty sure that Reform Judaism is the least racist of them all. I could be wrong, though.
I moved away from religion at a very early age because of the conflicting 'answers' to 'righteousness' religion provided, plus the fact that it promotes hateful attitudes that is covers up with 'love and light', often inappropriately.
Religion is the major factor in ALL wars and all conflicts, it is used like a weapon, and that is virtually what religion is, a weapon! it is also a ruse to control people from many diverse ideologies. If promotes fear of the unknown( which in turn promotes unreasonable hatred of the unknown), fear of death (unless you totally commit to a god or a saviour, ie the rules of a man written tome). It destroyed "self" esteem and promotes inferiority, conversly it promotes supremacism in being a 'follower' and a member of it's 'cult'. It promotes hate of a different religion (christianity for Judaism, Judaism for Islam, Islam for Judaism, Judaism for christianity et al).
Spirituality can take on all the positves of ALL religions without the control, without the hate, without the fear, it promotes self esteem by allowing one to 'think' and to act upon one's own conscience and not from 'propaganda'. People are more likely to "Do the right thing" if they know they alone are responsible for their actions, they alone are the 'culprits' and don't have scripture and misunderstood gospels from a man written tome to 'back them up'.
ANYTHING "organized" promotes 'organization' (control) ... of mind, body spirit.
Therefore a FREED spirit promotes responsibility for SELF control.
Namaste
Some religions are more organized than others. Secular Judaism and secular Christianity aren't that organized, and allow for a lot of freedom.
To label all Jews as racist --or any other term for that matter-- is lewd. There are many religions, philosophies and belief systems in this world. To label the followers of any one of them, as a group, is to generalize and debase every individual of the group. This can happen as a result of misinformation, the observed behavior of "one of those Jews/Christians/Buddhists(insert your favorite group or slur here)" or even the dislike of what one perceives to be the core philosophy of the group being generalized.
As for your statement regarding Jews... One might better receive your opinion if you characterized the TALMUD as a racist work, or a misguided, hateful collection of fictitious evil. But to characterize PEOPLE that you do not know, nor whose belief systems you are familiar with, in any way, is based out of ignorance and, possibly, fear.
My household is one which many people might describe as Jewish. The Zohar can easily be found in my home. The Torah as well. But the Talmud? You won't find that one here. I've never been taught out of it, I have never read it and, to the best of my knowledge, I have never even seen a copy.
Let's all get over the labels and characterizations. While modern society seems to consider such labels as necessary, I personally believe that those categorizations limit the abilities of every one of us to be productive, loving, problem-solving members of the human race. Haven't we had enough of that already?
I wish you nothing but the best.
Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:26 pm
madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8599 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
readyatthehelm wrote:
To label all Jews as racist --or any other term for that matter-- is lewd. There are many religions, philosophies and belief systems in this world. To label the followers of any one of them, as a group, is to generalize and debase every individual of the group. This can happen as a result of misinformation, the observed behavior of "one of those Jews/Christians/Buddhists(insert your favorite group or slur here)" or even the dislike of what one perceives to be the core philosophy of the group being generalized.
By being in such a group purely by choice; they are labeling themselves.
Quote:
As for your statement regarding Jews... One might better receive your opinion if you characterized the TALMUD as a racist work, or a misguided, hateful collection of fictitious evil. But to characterize PEOPLE that you do not know, nor whose belief systems you are familiar with, in any way, is based out of ignorance and, possibly, fear.
My household is one which many people might describe as Jewish. The Zohar can easily be found in my home. The Torah as well. But the Talmud? You won't find that one here. I've never been taught out of it, I have never read it and, to the best of my knowledge, I have never even seen a copy.
The Torah includes instructions on racial sex slavery, and genocide. We're not Christians here that are blinded to your Torah which seems no less evil, racist, hateful, misguided or fictitious than the Talmud which you know so little about.
Quote:
Let's all get over the labels and characterizations.
Are you a Jew or not? If you state you are; you're being a hypocrite. You're also telling me that your god is the one true god and that you are among his chosen, that it's o-k to enslave or kill me because I'm not one of you.
