For those of you who do not know what Solipsism means, it basically pertains to the notion that only the Self is real and that other minds don't actually independently exist; for those other minds are merely projections of the Self's mind. The thing is, this concept has never been disproved, ever. Countless philosophers, scientists, religious followers, etc. have tried to challenge it throughout the ages but to no avail.
Try asking yourself: How does one's self know reality without having a mind to experience it? For example, could you have known about this post without having a consciousness to experience it? What if someone told you about it? How could you prove that that person is independent of your consciousness when the only way you can every experience an interaction with that person is by having a mind (consciousness) to experience?
Many fear this concept because of its deepest implications on Self. You see the Self is afraid to realize that being alone in all of reality is infinitely inescapable. That is why, even as a logical fact which undoubtedly cannot be refuted, people insist to this very day that it cannot be true. Denial is their only defense against such an inescapable truth. But the truth isn't meant to offer comfort to those who do not welcome it. It is what it is.
Which is why I must start this thread, as an open challenge to anyone who is willing to try to prove that he or she can experience reality independent of his or her own mind. Mind you, the very act of responding to this post, or even just reading it already disproves whatever your "objective" response might be. Just like you cannot experience your post independent from yourself experiencing it.
What I'm saying is that this the fundamental law of every aspect of reality. It is the most important truth of anything. It is the most important and inescapable subject matter there is and can ever be. All other concepts are wholly dependent on it. All of reality is totally dependent on this one truth. I say this with 100% certainty; I'm absolutely convinced of it. If you disagree with me and think you can logically refute my position on this, please feel free to try. Thank you, and good luck.
so basically we are just one mind with a bad case of schizophrenia ?
Yep.
But seriously, every study of Quantum physics points to solipsism. I know such a concept is hard to accept, even laughable at first (I went through these phases at the beginning then submitted to the idea eventually). And I say "idea", because that's exactly what reality is. Reality is nothing more than an idea or set of ideas / concepts. As Bohr -- one of the great Quantum Physicists in the modern era -- would say: "There is no quantum world. There is only an abstract quantum description".
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 745 Location: Hell on earth
as long as there are no dumb asses with goofy hats in lame buildings with smelly people eating stale crackers it works for me.
I tryed explaining this to someone about 2 years ago and they think I'm crazy lol.
if everything is in our heads and all other people don't exist then is it not possible to control the actions of others since they are simply manifestations of our imagination?
or is it more of a we are different perspectives of a higher mind / collective consciousness? ie one mind is seeing/creating what we perceive as reality through the eyes of every individual?
I tryed explaining this to someone about 2 years ago and they think I'm crazy lol.
Lol.
Quote:
if everything is in our heads and all other people don't exist then is it not possible to control the actions of others since they are simply manifestations of our imagination?
Since everything and everyone is an experience of your mind, you are therefore, the only action there is. The actions of others is an experience of your mind. Therefore it is the mind experiencing these projections that is the only real action. This ultimately means that you are omnipotent. You prove this all the time in fact, as you are projecting this post, this forum, your computer, the people you interact with, and all the other subconscious expectations you may have, etc.
If you want to consciously manipulate reality, you will have to train your mind persistently to become more efficient with the thought process you choose. So if you want for example, food to eat, you actually don't need to get groceries or go to a restaurant, or to be a slave to this system by getting a job in order to "support" yourself. You can literally think the food into existence. However, there is a catch. You must persistently attend to that idea until it becomes a standing wave; as persistence is the fundamental law of the quantum phi-cycle (physical) nature of reality.
Quote:
or is it more of a we are different perspectives of a higher mind / collective consciousness? ie one mind is seeing/creating what we perceive as reality through the eyes of every individual?
Nope. There's no "higher mind", or "higher collective consciousness", or "higher self". The sentience that you are now is all there is. From the footnotes of the Observer Effect which sums up the Copenhagen Interpretation, it reads the following:
1. Reality is identical with the totality of observed phenomena (which means reality does not exist in the absence of observation)
2. Quantum mechanics is a complete description of reality; no deeper understanding is possible.
External reality can only be an internal experience. If you were to see things through the eyes of someone "out there", your sentience would still remain unchanged. Names can change, bodies can change, identities can change. But it is through sentience, that these "differences" can only be experienced. If you were to forget who you are for example, and identified yourself as someone else, one thing that will still remain is being Self-Aware (sentient). That sentience does not adhere to any identity, nor ego. Your sentience is your real Self.
The thing is, the belief in a "collective" consciousness is more widely popular and more appealing to the masses. This is because on the surface, it seems to offer more "hope" and "comfort" and "unity". However, solipsism is the only true concept that has these values; for it implicates a singular non-local sentience that is infinitely unbroken / holographic (whole) by its very nature.
Organized religion tries to avoid this truth by mystifying consciousness into "higher selves". By doing so, it has effectively conditioned society into believing that there needs to be a "salvation" process for which an external messianic figure is the only means of ascension. This in turn, prevents the self from realizing his or her true omnipotent nature while keeping him or her dependent on a system of enslavement.
Sat Apr 25, 2009 7:12 pm
dumby
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 Posts: 260 Location: kalifornia
two questions. what is the difference between this and subjectivism?
and although unrelated, what do you think about terence mckennas advocacy of mushrooms, dmt, lsd and such to bring about a more peaceful, sane, and all-inclusive (in terms of importance of normal people) world?
Sun Apr 26, 2009 10:28 am
Sponsor
alexclaton Loremaster VIP
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 745 Location: Hell on earth
so basically I'm all there is so I should only rely on myself, works for me, I hate the idea of higher beings and all that bullshit and prefer to help myself anyways.
two questions. what is the difference between this and subjectivism?
Solipsism is complete Subjectivism.
Quote:
and although unrelated, what do you think about terence mckennas advocacy of mushrooms, dmt, lsd and such to bring about a more peaceful, sane, and all-inclusive (in terms of importance of normal people) world?
Those things, including Terence McKenna himself, are merely projections of your sentient mind. They hold no power nor have any effect whatsoever. The only actual effect that occurs is your sentience experiencing any knowledge about them.
Quote:
so basically I'm all there is so I should only rely on myself, works for me, I hate the idea of higher beings and all that bullshit and prefer to help myself anyways.
although im not a philosophy expert, i know that this school of thought is nothing new. ancient philosophers were constantly questioning the nature of reality.
funny that somebody should bring up mckenna though because this is exactly the kind of stuff tim leary talked about
Nobody is. That's the beauty about this whole sentient nature of reality. The Self is always in a process of learning and can never be an expert. See even though the Self is omnipotent, it can never arrive at a conclusion (a final point of all-knowing). Its omniscience in other words, is an endless experience of self-discovery (self-reference or self-difference -- alluding to its dynamic nature of constant change).
This is because according to Quantum Mechanics, reality is an action (a persistence), not an outcome. Since the mind is infinite by its very nature, it doesn't end up in a destination (location). It is non-local and is always active (processing) for which facilitates momentum in wholes (holographically).
To sum up, there is only one thing that is occurring in all of reality. Its other names are "Time", "Present", "Persistence", "Action", "Energy", "Self", "Sentience", "God", "Mind", "Life", and "Purpose". This thing is a concept and is also called Existence. By its very definition, it is true of itself. Because it is true of itself, it is whole. Because it is whole, it is circular. Because it is circular, it is self-referential. Because it can refer to itself, it is self-aware. This self-awareness (consciousness) projects all of reality through its endless process of self-referencing. Even if the opposite of Existence -- Non-Existence -- exists, Existence itself is still being referred to.
What is consciousness? Consciousness is another name for existence. Existence is an abstract concept that is true of itself. This condition is necessary and sufficient for a concept to be a conscious being, a thought thinking itself. The only such concepts are existence and our selves, which are existence observing itself in time. Our selves are formed in our brains when we become conscious. They result from brain function, but unlike other concepts that our brains can form, these concepts are themselves conscious. This is why we feel that there is more to consciousness than just brain function.
A continuation of this discussion that is more appropriate here.
totalitariantiptoe wrote:
My point is that fear and its forms are necessary for evolutionary purposes. Without such, there can be no reference point for evolving. Without a conspiracy, without problems in our Humanity, in our world so to speak, these boards would probably serve a different purpose (perhaps in another universe / frequency level that isn't suffering from a global conspiracy, these boards would be a porn site).
Ok, I can agree that fear is necessary to push the evolution of an individuals mind to new levels and people who do not risk anything or learn anything new cannot evolve mentally because there is no challenge to their mind and they stay at whatever level of maturity or spiritual development they are comfortable with, generally speaking that of a young adult.
Quote:
The illusion will become an increasingly vivid experience just as long as society continues to believe it's "physical". It's an experience, that's all it is. There are no limits to the magnitude of an experience. If you are confident in its abilities to resort to actual physical means, then that is the frequency of information you are adding to your experiences. Your intentions are noble, indeed. But reality is impartial and plays no favorites.
But you state this as if I've never seen a belligerent police officer push my wife to the ground or I've never seen friends with bruises from police. Are you implying these experiences did not actually happen? Or that they are only a kind of virtual reality that I have viewed in my mind?
Quote:
This is perhaps difficult to accept at first...or forever. Most people will reject it, permanently. I could understand why. It depressed me at first. But then I thought of its deepening implications, and then I was like ....
This idea does not depress me, in fact I think it would be great if it were true.
Quote:
peter griffin wrote:
There are other people experiencing this reality through their own minds as well
As comforting as that may be to most people, that's impossible to prove.
As is your idea.
Quote:
But then I can just say that others' minds and their changing states are themselves experiences taking place within your's.
Sure, you could say that, but that doesn't make it true.
Quote:
Perhaps the noobs who got themselves thoroughly killed in these "resist" the "NWO" incidents simply died in "other" reference frames but from their personal First Person perspective, they simply shift to another similar universe where they survive but get seriously injured. See Quantum Immortality (QI).
But there are no other reference frames according to your theory, because if it all exists in my mind, then you, the Pentagon guy, the bullets and every book I've ever read have all originated in my mind (which would make me a super genius by the way ) and there can be no other place for this man who was killed to go. How could there be, he doesn't exist any where but in my mind.
Quote:
According to QI, a person cannot experience a universe where he or she dies. This is because such a universe cannot be experienced, since death implies non-experience. That person will only experience a universe of experience (where he or she is living). So if a person decides to die, he or she will jump to a universe where he or she survives.
Now it's easy to assume that because multiple realities exist simultaneously, that there must be people other than oneself who experience these different frequencies. However, these realities can only be experienced once at a time through the first person perspective. So the question continues to knock on the door, how does an individual step out of his or her own first person experience? You see those multiple realities which are not yet experienced by a Sentient Mind in the present moment are not objective existences in themselves, but are probability waves which are dependent on the momentum of that individual.
Quote:
peter griffin wrote:
To say "try to experience anything without your mind" is misleading, because, as I stated above, just because one cannot have an experience outside of ones mind does not mean that nothing exists outside of one's mind. \
Yes it does. Accepting this concept is a tall tall order. Most people are not ready to accept it. Even I still find myself sometimes depressed about it. But through the course of Time, I'm learning to grow with it.
So here's the lead up and question. If I understand you correctly, like the Matrix movies, not one thing around me is real. You, TotalitarianTipToe sitting at your computer reading my words, do not exist except as a piece of data in my mind. Every word from every book I've ever read has originated in my mind, the theory of QI that I first heard from you actually comes from me, the ten thousand year history of ancient symbolism and occult is purely something my mind has thought of, and this system of global "squaring" is all in my mind, all for the benefit of my mental evolution with the ultimate goal being my ability to break from this frequency range and experience some other sort of reality. Now, if this is correct, in these other frequency ranges do other beings exist or am I it? For that matter, what about you, are you and I the same mind? We would certainly have to be.
Quote:
Your enemy isn't your enemy. Just as there is no such thing as objective "good" or "bad". Your enemy simply exists as a "necessary evil" for evolutionary purposes. In fact, you can even (but don't need to), thank such a dynamic in helping upgrade your Self-Awareness in this ongoing process.
Then what about others who do not know of any enemy? Do they not evolve as well? But then again, they do not actually exist so the question is irrelevant.
Quote:
Then you will ultimately fail in your endeavor to defeat this global power structure that is evolving exponentially for the purposes of forcing you to come to terms with your omnipotent True Nature. Your enemy wants you to evolve for your own good. It is not your enemy. It is your evolutionary frame of reference. The more you fight it, the more you fight yourself.
I did not say I couldn't do it, if it's possible I can do it. I said many other people cannot, because many other people cannot even concentrate on the simplest things let alone changing the vibratory rate of their mind, but again, there are no other people.
Quote:
Maybe different versions of those people would and are, in frequency ranges (realities) which are of different levels from this one. I think that the more you adhere to a certain frequency range, that you phase in only the people who are appropriate for that range.
But wait, what other people?
Quote:
Expecting someone to evolve beyond their physical belief system and its limitations isn't necessary. Understand that the ongoing evolution of your "enemy" will sooner or later directly encroach on your most personal freedoms to the point that you will find yourself needing to rely on QM principles to deal with it. Why wait until it's too late? You still have Time to phase out of this frequency range.
So you are saying that because the system I see around me is getting worse, and I believe that to be true, I am making this happen and will at one point in the future be required to change frequencies, either by choice or by being killed in this frequency?
And does the fact that I've reached this point in my evolution in which I am aware of this theory mean I am any closer to achieving the ability to change frequency at will? (Although whatever you answer I should already know )
Prove other people exist beyond your experience of them.
peter griffin wrote:
But you state this as if I've never seen a belligerent police officer push my wife to the ground or I've never seen friends with bruises from police. Are you implying these experiences did not actually happen? Or that they are only a kind of virtual reality that I have viewed in my mind?
I'm implying that the belligerent police officer who pushed your wife to the ground as well you seeing your friends getting bruised by the police are nothing more than electrical signals being interpreted by your brain which you (your Sentient Mind) experiences.
peter griffin wrote:
Are you implying these experiences did not actually happen? Or that they are only a kind of virtual reality that I have viewed in my mind?
Only experiences happen. Nothing but experience can occur. These experiences are of your Sentience. They are a virtual reality of your Sentient Mind. Though those experiences change over the course of Time, your Sentience remains constant. In Special Relativity, this Sentience is mislabeled as the "Speed" of Light. It is constant in every inertial reference frame because only you can experience your frame of reference no matter how much you try to see things in "someone else's" mind. This is also consistent with the Measurement Problem aka Observer Effect, which implies that once empirical experimental data is known, it's already been disturbed by the very act of knowing, regardless of the devices used.
To see things in another frame of reference, in another person's mind, is to see it through your's. There's no way around this.
peter griffin wrote:
This idea does not depress me, in fact I think it would be great if it were true.
Excellent! That is great news to hear. I'm very glad that I'm not the "only one" feeling a sense of peace and sanctuary from such a concept.
peter griffin wrote:
Every word from every book I've ever read has originated in my mind, the theory of QI that I first heard from you actually comes from me, the ten thousand year history of ancient symbolism and occult is purely something my mind has thought of, and this system of global "squaring" is all in my mind, all for the benefit of my mental evolution with the ultimate goal being my ability to break from this frequency range and experience some other sort of reality.
Yes. That's the whole purpose of the global conspiracy. Once you graduate from this level of mind (experience), that global conspiracy would phased out -- its resolution becomes so low-res that the experience of it becomes insignificant to you. The higher your level from this level, the higher the degree of the "phasing out" of that global conspiracy. Think of it as like looking at the rear-view mirror. The more you travel forwards in a certain direction, the smaller (in scale, magnitude) certain information in the rear-view mirror appear. It's all about persisting an a certain goal. Persistence implies "amounts". Quantum means "amounts".
peter griffin wrote:
So here's the lead up and question. If I understand you correctly, like the Matrix movies, not one thing around me is real. You, TotalitarianTipToe sitting at your computer reading my words, do not exist except as a piece of data in my mind. Every word from every book I've ever read has originated in my mind, the theory of QI that I first heard from you actually comes from me, the ten thousand year history of ancient symbolism and occult is purely something my mind has thought of, and this system of global "squaring" is all in my mind, all for the benefit of my mental evolution with the ultimate goal being my ability to break from this frequency range and experience some other sort of reality. Now, if this is correct, in these other frequency ranges do other beings exist or am I it? For that matter, what about you, are you and I the same mind? We would certainly have to be.
Yes. We're one mind. Yes, you are it -- the One so to speak. You see, the fragmentation you experience as the "outside" world is an illusion effect of the Momentum of Time (which is curved). Every concept already exists and is experienced simultaneously as resolutions (fractals) within the Sentient Mind. Because this Sentient Mind is constant (it persists permanently), it is curved (see Arthur Young's explanation pertaining to Relativity). Because it is curved, it changes state, always.
This is where the Multiple Worlds Interpretation fits in. Every concept already exists and is experienced at the Present Moment-um (which changes state). Every concept (bit of information) is a whole universe (reality frequency) in on itself. The same goes for people, objects, etc. They are universes in themselves. Once a Sentience experiences anyone of these frequencies, he or she already experiences all other frequencies as well. However, depending on the momentum of that observer (that Sentience), an average (a level) of reality is formed based on said momentum bias. So if that Sentient observer has a belief system that is geared towards a certain concept, all other concepts (which are also being experienced) will have lower resolutions accordingly.
Why is there only one Sentience? Because only one moment can be experienced in Time. That moment however, changes state. And that process of state change in Time is its moment-um. This also explains why that even though you are experiencing everything at the same time and therefore are the source and flow of everything in all of infinity, that you cannot understand them all like some super prodigy. Self-Evolution prevents you from being perfectly omniscient, because of the resolution / fractal based nature of its process. In other words, you experience and know all information already, but some more clear than others. It's all about experiencing information in magnitudes (quantums). See The Illusion of Distance and Scale.
peter griffin wrote:
But wait, what other people?
Read the two paragraphs above.
peter griffin wrote:
So you are saying that because the system I see around me is getting worse, and I believe that to be true, I am making this happen and will at one point in the future be required to change frequencies, either by choice or by being killed in this frequency?
You change realities, universes all the time by merely existing in Time. But the reason why you think you are experiencing the same reality is because the difference in your momentum (your mindset) from moment to moment is so small that it appears as the same reality. If you use the Time to change your thinking greatly, you change the average of your mind. The average of your mind is the level of your realities (the level of your moments; your moment-um). You are experiencing shifting realities in the same level (average).
What you need to do is change the average of your reality-flow. The enemy you percieve in this level, is evolving just as you are. It does so in order to provide you with enough incentive to drastically change your level (your frequency range). Your enemy is a major cornerstone of your Self-Evolution. Because of that, your purpose to continuously evolve is making all of this happen. But you also have the Free-Will to remain in the same level. It really comes down to choice.
Also, you can't be killed (at least in theory) -- see Quantum Immortality (QI). You just switch universes -- one in which you survive. I wouldn't recommend it though, as you will still be vulnerable to great injury depending on your mindset.
peter griffin wrote:
(Although whatever you answer I should already know )
Remember, even though you know everything already, you experience "knowing" in resolutions, magnitudes. So your evolution is really an experience of Self-Rediscovery. However, it's an infinite process.
peter griffin wrote:
peter griffin wrote:
There are other people experiencing this reality through their own minds as well
totalitariantiptoe wrote:
As comforting as that may be to most people, that's impossible to prove.
As is your idea.
No it's not. Your statement in blue cannot be proven, making Solipsism (the very opposite of your statement), proven. Its proof depends directly on the unproven state of your statement. These opposites define each other, completely. To say that Solpsism is also unproven is to completely ignore your own statement. But how can you, since you yourself admitted that the opposite of your statement is true.... "Yes, one can only experience anything through one's own mind. Of course that's true.".
Furthermore, Solipsism proven the very moment you are experiencing this post. Everything Quantum Mechanics stands for points to Solipsism. I challenge anyone right here, right now to dis-prove the very foundation of Solipsism -- that you can only experience your own Sentience. Please dis-prove this concept. I beg you too.
If you cannot, that foundation in itself is axiomatic. The very beginning of this thread, I recall posting a direct open challenge to anyone to dis-prove it. Yet nobody has even begun to do so. It may be impossible to do so.
On the other hand, your suggestion that there are other people outside one's own experience of them is however impossible to prove (the very opposite position of Solipsism which is impossible to dis-prove). I challenge you to scientifically prove that there are other people experiencing this reality outside your own experience of them. You have one major hurdle to do so....you must be able to explain such a proof without experiencing doing so. If you can't pass this hurdle, you prove Solipsism.
I want to know if it's even possible to provide empirical scientific answers that could truly dismantle Solipsism, not opinions that only serve to deny it. You see denialism is not proof.
peter griffin wrote:
And does the fact that I've reached this point in my evolution in which I am aware of this theory mean I am any closer to achieving the ability to change frequency at will?
Re: Prove other people exist beyond your experience of them.
Quote:
Yes. That's the whole purpose of the global conspiracy. Once you graduate from this level of mind (experience), that global conspiracy would phased out -- its resolution becomes so low-res that the experience of it becomes insignificant to you. The higher your level from this level, the higher the degree of the "phasing out" of that global conspiracy. Think of it as like looking at the rear-view mirror. The more you travel forwards in a certain direction, the smaller (in scale, magnitude) certain information in the rear-view mirror appear. It's all about persisting an a certain goal. Persistence implies "amounts". Quantum means "amounts".
So if I decide to simply stop paying attention to the global conspiracy it will eventually cease to exist? If so, what about all the information I already "know" about it?
Quote:
Every concept already exists and is experienced simultaneously as resolutions (fractals) within the Sentient Mind.
Does this mean that each concept is but a smaller (or larger) version of another concept? What I mean by that is if a fractal means an exact copy of something at smaller and smaller (or larger and larger) scales to infinity how can a concept be a fractal when each concept is different from the others? Or are you saying that the singular consciousness (for lack of a better term) is broken into fractals, each fractal being a sentient mind at a slightly different frequency, which experiences just one of the infinite amount of experiences?
Quote:
This is where the Multiple Worlds Interpretation fits in. Every concept already exists and is experienced at the Present Moment-um (which changes state). Every concept (bit of information) is a whole universe (reality frequency) in on itself. The same goes for people, objects, etc. They are universes in themselves. Once a Sentience experiences anyone of these frequencies, he or she already experiences all other frequencies as well. However, depending on the momentum of that observer (that Sentience), an average (a level) of reality is formed based on said momentum bias. So if that Sentient observer has a belief system that is geared towards a certain concept, all other concepts (which are also being experienced) will have lower resolutions accordingly.
So if I, again, cease to focus on the global conspiracy information, which I seem to have nearly exhausted anyway now I just go round and round with details, and focus on something else, the global conspiracy frequency will move out of the range of the average frequency and the new focus will begin to make up the average.
You also seem to be saying that the new focus can be ANYTHING, perhaps even flying or moving through rock, given enough focus on a specific concept.
Quote:
What you need to do is change the average of your reality-flow. The enemy you percieve in this level, is evolving just as you are. It does so in order to provide you with enough incentive to drastically change your level (your frequency range). Your enemy is a major cornerstone of your Self-Evolution. Because of that, your purpose to continuously evolve is making all of this happen. But you also have the Free-Will to remain in the same level. It really comes down to choice.
It's funny that you state that, because I've often noted that as I form a certain idea about this conspiracy (or anything really) and focus on it, and form a prediction of the general way things will go, they often go that way. I usually attribute that to mere chance or good study, but perhaps that's not it.
Quote:
I challenge anyone right here, right now to dis-prove the very foundation of Solipsism -- that you can only experience your own Sentience. Please dis-prove this concept. I beg you too.
If you cannot, that foundation in itself is axiomatic. The very beginning of this thread, I recall posting a direct open challenge to anyone to dis-prove it. Yet nobody has even begun to do so. It may be impossible to do so.
Many things are impossible to disprove. That in itself is not proof. My point was that both of our theories are impossible to prove or disprove. But I think that you mean since we know, for a fact, that one cannot experience anything outside of ones mind, unless one can prove that something exists outside of ones own mind, which is impossible, the default position must be to assume that nothing exists outside of ones own mind, because to do otherwise is to make an unprovable assumption and that is not a scientific reaction to a problem, and if we do that we may as well assume any number of unprovable things.
Quote:
peter griffin wrote:
And does the fact that I've reached this point in my evolution in which I am aware of this theory mean I am any closer to achieving the ability to change frequency at will?
Yes.
But how? Merkaba meditation? Intense focus on anything? What is the method?
All of this leads me to the question, is there any point in helping others see through the illusion if these others do not actually exist?
) and there can be no other place for this man who was killed to go. How could there be, he doesn't exist any where but in my mind.
