Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 243 Location: False Apostle Rebuttal below::READ IT
Quote:
thou shalt not worship or bow to those images.
Nice, denseness. I think God knowing he made you intelligent enough to reason on the matter figured you'd be grown up enough to not use childish conclusions but principle instead.
Culture differences also plays a role. during those times many of the nations AROUND the Hebrews were into worshipping idols. Literally almost any image they made they worshiped. It is not unreasonable to see that is why he commanded them in that manner, so they would not fall into the same snare.
However, a question in rebuttal, he obviously did not condemn making images fully did he? Did he not tell them to create cherubs that covered the ark, ox that held the molten sea, decorated with lions, bulls, cherubs, or the twelve lions that were on solomon's throne, and MANY more examples? I dont cite the Scripture because we have people here that think quoting "other books" is bad and against getting information.
What, you cant agree money is an idol too? Just because it is not a carved image it cannot be an idol, that is idolized by people?
if it would be as you say first part of 2nd commandment will be omitted.
my arguments stands.
Tue Oct 03, 2006 10:53 am
Opiate
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 243 Location: False Apostle Rebuttal below::READ IT
Benjamin Freedman wrote:
if it would be as you say first part of 2nd commandment will be omitted.
my arguments stands.
Tell me, how does it still 'stand'? This post doesn't even make any freakin sense, seriously.
"First part of the second commandment will be ommitted"
Here they are:
1. “I am Jehovah your God . . . You must not have any other gods against my face.
2. “You must not make for yourself a carved image or a form like anything that is in the heavens above or that is on the earth underneath or that is in the waters under the earth. You must not bow down to them nor be induced to serve them . . .
I am assuming with the limited information you posted that the bold part is the "first part" you are referring to.
So....your argument doesn't stand, not to make a point at least, because I don't even understand what you are trying to say anymore, with incomplete sentences and blurbs.
This sentence prohibits people to make for example statues, draw paintings with images of things in heaven above:
Quote:
Thou shalt not make unto thee any
graven image or any likeness of any thing
that is in heaven above, or that is in the
earth beneath, or that is in the water
under the earth.
According to this an artist making a picture of stars is breaking this commandment.
Your god forbids us to make pictures of stars.
The part about idolatry goes after it
Quote:
Thou shalt not bow down
thyself to them, nor serve them: for I, the
Lord thy God, am a jealous God, visiting
the iniquity of the fathers upon the chil-
dren unto the third and fourth generation
of them that hate me; and showing mercy
unto thousands of them that love me, and
keep my commandments.
Do you understand now?
Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:49 am
Opiate
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 243 Location: False Apostle Rebuttal below::READ IT
Wow, so you were just making the same point you were TRYING to create before? LOL!
Yes I now understand that you are full of crap and hot gas. Seriously. (In this respect at least.)
Evidence of the rest of the OT contradicts what you are saying as I ALREADY demonstrated but you chose to ignore, almost like I didn't even post anything. It contradicts your strawman. I am beginning to hate that word.
Wow, so you were just making the same point you were TRYING to create before? LOL!
there is huge difference between trying and making.
i did make a point - see end of my post.
Quote:
Yes I now understand that you are full of crap and hot gas. Seriously. (In this respect at least.)
insult is the last defense of out-argued.
Quote:
Evidence of the rest of the OT contradicts what you are saying as I ALREADY demonstrated but you chose to ignore, almost like I didn't even post anything. It contradicts your strawman. I am beginning to hate that word.
you didn't demostrate anything.
in fact your statement
Quote:
However, a question in rebuttal, he obviously did not condemn making images fully did he? Did he not tell them to create cherubs that covered the ark, ox that held the molten sea, decorated with lions, bulls, cherubs, or the twelve lions that were on solomon's throne, and MANY more examples?
is the proof that you know that this
Quote:
According to 2nd commandment an artist making a picture of stars is breaking this commandment.
is true.
Tue Oct 03, 2006 12:22 pm
Opiate
Joined: 14 Aug 2006 Posts: 243 Location: False Apostle Rebuttal below::READ IT
Quote:
insult is the last defense of out-argued.
Oh so now you are pulling out the whole "disinfo" argument when you yourself have already several times used the same tactics and even insulting mockery? Give it a rest.
I say trying because it isnt a point, all it is, is just a lame observation based on not knowing all the facts. Don't act like a scholar when you don't even comprehend simple reasoning regarding these Scriptures you disect without wieghing out the rest of the Scripture pertaining to the same thing or at least the same subject.
Quote:
you didn't demostrate anything.
in fact your statement
Quote:
However, a question in rebuttal, he obviously did not condemn making images fully did he? Did he not tell them to create cherubs that covered the ark, ox that held the molten sea, decorated with lions, bulls, cherubs, or the twelve lions that were on solomon's throne, and MANY more examples?
is the proof that you know that this
Quote:
According to 2nd commandment an artist making a picture of stars is breaking this commandment.
is true.
LOL. Yes you are right, I AM "out-argued". Not because I have nothing in defense, but because you have nothing to say, your fingers type, but they dont say anything.
THAT statement was in response to your earlier post,
"we should not make images? "
Stop moving my words around, thats child's play. My response makes it clear what the answer is.
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 817 Location: Hell on earth
Human Cattle wrote:
alexclaton wrote:
dont confuse morals with ethics...
everyone has morals and lives by them, doesnt mean they are right or just...
some ppl think its moral to eradicate all those considered "unclean"
also free thought should not be immoral but some ppl think it is....
a person choosing to NOT kill a child even with a gun pointed at their head is not morality, its ethics...
I think it depends what context the word is used in. I'm sure some people do think it's moral to kill, but for the most part the word is not used to justify evil. Anyways, that is irrelevant. You know the point of my statemen.
Some examples from dictionary.com
Morals:
1. Of or concerned with the judgment of the goodness or badness of human action and character: moral scrutiny; a moral quandary.
2. Teaching or exhibiting goodness or correctness of character and behavior: a moral lesson.
3. Conforming to standards of what is right or just in behavior; virtuous: a moral life.
Ethics:
1. a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture.
2. moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence.
the problem with morality is its based on perseption, just like good/evil...
ie good to u can be evil to someone else.... and since bible is written by men the morals are oppinion...
why does one person or group of ppl have moral authority over the rest?
the problem with morality is its based on perseption, just like good/evil...
In your last post you tried to point out morals vs ethics. Now you state that morals are the "opinion" of men.
So what are ethics?
Your problem is that you don't believe in anything BUT the opinions of man and therefore in your mind nobody should tell you what to do, because they are not supreme authority, correct?
Since there is no such thing as a higher power or absolute laws then we're all truly f*cked I guess.
Quote:
ie good to u can be evil to someone else.... and since bible is written by men the morals are oppinion...
The bible is the written word of God. So yes men may have physically written it.
Quote:
why does one person or group of ppl have moral authority over the rest?
They don't have the authority and that is why people prefer to follow the supposed word of God/Jesus rather than bow down to highly flawed human being dictators.
Your belief takes us back full circle to the same questions. If there is no God then who makes the laws? Sounds like we're in a pretty rough situation if we have to trust other peoples good "morals".
Human Cattle
i agree with your post,
up to the stuff with bible.
Bible is not a moral code
and i disagree with it from its beginning represented by concept of "jealous god"
"For the Lord, whose name is jealous, is a jealous God."—Exodus 34:14.
What group does jealousy fits in, into high or low emotions?
Human Cattle
i agree with your post,
up to the stuff with bible.
Bible is not a moral code
and i disagree with it from its beginning represented by concept of "jealous god"
"For the Lord, whose name is jealous, is a jealous God."—Exodus 34:14.
What group does jealousy fits in, into high or low emotions?
What does jealousy represent?
Depends on your idea of jealousy. Are you implying that it's a violent emotion that God shouldn't be displaying?
In my opinion this means God would be less than happy with those who deny their maker. It's an emotion displayed when anybody pictures their lovers heart with somebody else.
Is it necessarily a violent emotion? I don't think God would condone a violent fit of rage coming from a human being.
Quote:
Bible is not a moral code
The fact that you don't want to submit to laws from a human dictator implies that you think there is a true RIGHT and WRONG.
Where did you get the ideas for RIGHT and WRONG? Were they learned from other humans? Why did those humans have the authority to "dictate" to us what they believed?
The fact is that it comes down to what you BELIEVE. If their was a book whose moral code satisfied EVERYBODY on the earth what would that mean?
Find a better historical document that you feel is 100% truth and obviously the laws of the true higher power then let me know. Until that happens people are going to continue follow the bible as the word of God.
This argument will keep going in circles until the end of time do you realize that?
Depends on your idea of jealousy. Are you implying that it's a violent emotion that God shouldn't be displaying?
i think jealousy is primitive and selfish.
Quote:
Where did you get the ideas for RIGHT and WRONG? Were they learned from other humans? Why did those humans have the authority to "dictate" to us what they believed?
I didn't get ideas for right and wrong from the bible.
Quote:
Find a better historical document that you feel is 100% truth and obviously the laws of the true higher power then let me know. Until that happens people are going to continue follow the bible as the word of God.
Does the document have to be historical to have better ideas in it than bible?
Bible was inspiring for me in few things like some of jesus's works and uninspiring in its way of promoting slavery, torture, women oppression.
and concerning knowledge about diet, medicine, laws of nature - xianity and judaism are one of most primitive religions -
compared to religious books from eastern cultures bible is in this like book for kids.
Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:12 pm
madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8599 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
yhwh is jealous of a gold calf:
Exodus 32:24-27 24 And I said unto them, Whosoever hath any gold, let them break it off. So they gave it me: then I cast it into the fire, and there came out this calf. 25 And when Moses saw that the people were naked; (for Aaron had made them naked unto their shame among their enemies:) 26 Then Moses stood in the gate of the camp, and said, Who is on the LORD'S side? let him come unto me. And all the sons of Levi gathered themselves together unto him. 27 And he said unto them, Thus saith the LORD God of Israel, Put every man his sword by his side, and go in and out from gate to gate throughout the camp, and slay every man his brother, and every man his companion, and every man his neighbour.
Has Satan done a worse atrocity in the Bible?
Tue Oct 03, 2006 6:14 pm
alexclaton
Joined: 05 Mar 2006 Posts: 817 Location: Hell on earth
Human Cattle wrote:
Your problem is that you don't believe in anything BUT the opinions of man and therefore in your mind nobody should tell you what to do, because they are not supreme authority, correct?
the only oppinions i believe are my own... and yes noone should tell me what to do... noone has the right to tell others what to do...
if u wanna believe in a book used to heard ppl go for it... just dont tell me i have to believe...
