You'll Pay If You Give Up US Citizenship

Posts: 640

i never consented to a birth certificate or a social security card... as for contract law , that law only applies to those who play that game... if i decide to separate myself completely then none of those rules apply to me regardless if i ask permission or not... if no one is greater than me besides my creator then why would i need to ask permission or inform anyone that im leaving... hell most of these "agreements" already come with an expiration date... ie u have to actively keep urself in the system... so technically if i just let them expire im free cuz the contract has an end date and essentially self destructs...

the fact that id leave in the first place should tell u i obviously can care less about their "rules"... in leaving i would cease to interact with such idiots and rules and would therefore not have any need to tell anyone anything... and if anyone has a problem with that i have no problem setting them straight... a bullet between the eyes seems to work nicely when obviously words cannot stop their transgression....

also since ur getting mixed info from mixed sources... u speak of robert who himself has stated u can simply discard ur papers and says not to worry too much about ucc... however theres ppl on the net who say to use ucc to invoke this redemption process of which ive yet to see anyone pull off successfully.... there is way too much hearsay around this freeman subject and only a few ppl i know of are making it work IN CANADUH!
some supposedly have similar success here but nothing major or ground breaking... fact is it largely comes down to how bored the cop is and how much of a dick they wanna be... america is in a police state far ahead of the other countries... we have lunatics with guns and badges who think they can force ppl to submit to their version of reality and quite frankly you only have 2 options... submit or fight back... as far as negotiation... if u can get them to negotiate and leave u alone by all means do so but when they refuse to discuss it or negotiate then i say get ready for a hard time one way or the other....

have u put any of this into effect urself? if so what have u done and where do u live (generally speaking ie amerika,canaduh etc) and what are the results uve gooten from this process if any?

Posts: 499

Broken down into separate points for ease of reading/responding. Sorry athat this might be a bit long, but there were alot of little points packed into your four paragraphs to respond to.

Regarding the fact that you never consented to the birth certificate or the social security contract: that makes an excellent argument for cancelling those documents/contracts.

Regarding contract law: it is universal, not just for those who decide to "play it". Explanation: All people are equal before the law. No one has the right to force anyone else to do anything. (That is called tyranny.) They can, however, freely agree with each other about certain things. These agreements can be verbal or written. Both are forms of contracts. See the Bouvier's law dictionary for the definition of "contract". I urge everyone to learn about contract law, even if you can only understand a little of it at a time. It is really quite important to understanding everything else.

Regarding your statement about not needing to ask for permission: You don't have to "ask", actually. You don't need to beg or anything that makes you seem less than equal to the other party either. You merely need to notify the other party that you are leaving the agreement. That's it. If the other party tries to say that you can't leave it, then the contract becomes invalid due to duress (TDC: threat duress coercion). Make sure you get evidence of their refusal in case you need to prove it later (which is why everything should be done via letters). Either way, you are out.

Good point about the expiration dates. I don't have a driver's license anymore; I let it expire and didn't renew it. I thought it would be fun to symbolically give them the finger though. "Licenses? We don't need no stinking licenses!" See the definition for "license":"A right given by some competent authority to do an act, which without such authority would be illegal." Only subjects must ask for the right to do something. To everyone else, it was never illegal in the first place. Ah, the stuff we should have known as kids before our parents (I hope unwittingly) turned us into subjects by having us "submit" "applications" and "registrations".

I've gotten good ideas from various sources, yes. (One of them you gave to me, btw.) However, you appear to be assuming that I am agreeing with everything that each source has to say. This is not the case. If you've been following the thinkfree forums, you will have seen a certain user (who writes exactly like me) that is attempting to correct some of what I consider to be errors in their logic. Actually, the first post I made there was immediately attacked, which I thought was somewhat humorous. I am explaining some things that some of them are obviously not ready to accept. (Some of them have chosen the bible as their law, which I am revealing to be a mistake. For people that try so hard to separate truth from illusion, it is a tremendously poor choice to accept all the unprovable nonsense and tyrannical concepts that the book contains. "People who work on the sabbath should be put to death", etc. So much for freedom, eh?) I feel that I made my point and was not defeated, and since then I have had other established members contact me about my ideas.

Regarding Robert Menard's statements that one can discard their papers and not worry about the UCC: I haven't heard him saying this before, and as you can see above, if he had said it I would disagree with it. To me it seems contradictory to his NoI/CoR process.

Regarding the "redemption process", I am not terribly impressed with what I know about it. It is a way to protect yourself from the system and use it at the same time, which I think is foolish. The system is not trustworthy, as we can all see by the endless examples all around us. If there is some secret treasury account with all this fictional money in it, they can keep it. I am not proceeding in that direction. I think it better to leave the system completely and have nothing to do with it, similar to the ecclesians (with exception to their use of the bible as law). Their idea is something along the lines of claiming their own land, declaring it to be separate from whatever country it is in, declaring themselves to be embassadors of their land, and when traveling on the lands of the other county, claiming immunity to their laws. Its' an interesting strategy.

Regarding the other party refusing to communicate when discussing your rights and freedoms: An unrebutted affidavit stands as truth. When presented with an affidavit and they stand mute, their silence is their consent that it is true. These are the keys to understanding processes like "notorial protest" and "default judgement". This is a trick they like to use against us (unresponded notices, etc.), which we can use against them. This is not a weapon that they have the sole use of.

Regarding any results I have made by using the information that I speak of: So far its been mostly contractual work. I have been testing contract law by modifying government/corporate contracts, none of which have been refused. I have been rather liberal with the changes, to see whether they would fail. After my modifications, they will find them of little use if they attempt to use them in court against me. I am close to taking the next steps, that is, removing the contracts completely. I've had my fun with them, and I think I am done with them. At that point I will be registration, license-plate, and driver's license free among other contracts I will be cancelling.

Unfortunately (sort of), I have not been challenged by police, lawyers, or judges yet, so I don't have much practice in dealing with them yet. Not to say that I don't have a good idea as to how to go about it, but it hasn't happened yet. I do not doubt there will come a time when this occurs, since I doubt that the system will allow little islands of liberty to exist in its land of tyranny unchallenged. Especially when they find that the island is growing. But if it works out the way I intend it to, I will be picking my battles and where they are fought. I'm sorry if you wanted to hear about my gunfights with police officers and how many people I have shot in the head to be free, I don't have any. Smile

As another way to test my theories, I have a friend who has a lawyer as an uncle. My friend, as a way to try and find out if some of these things are true, asks his uncle about them. (He is as skeptical about it as anyone else that has been brainwashed by the system.) To my friend's surprise, all have been confirmed to be true so far. This has also had the effect of slowly bringing my friend to believe me. Well, that story isn't over yet. People that pride themselves in knowing all about how the system works tend to be tough nuts to crack; they don't want to find out that everything they know is garbage. Smile

To let you know about a new idea that I have been thinking about these days: I am looking for a way to test the courts without actually going to them, although if I must do that then I will. My first thought was to get a speeding ticket intentionally, and then see how well I would do fighting it. It won't cost too much (for me), and it won't lead to jail time, so it's like a low stakes test. But I am looking for a better way than that.

Posts: 640

thanx for the response, im sorry i made some assumptions, as usual i agree with 95% of what u say

one of the things i think is being misunderstood is what do we do when tyrannical lunatics use violence to get their way even when u show them they are wrong? why should my life be so greatly inconvenienced when i broke a rule that caused harm to no one and no thing... what is the best course of action when the ones u goto (courts?) allow these ppl to clearly lie to ur face and tilt the table in their favor (which i clearly witnessed and experienced when i tryed the get a ticket and fight it method of experimentation... bill went form a measly hundred or so to 600! not only did they add charges they changed the amount... yet these ppl are to be taken seriously?) they do NOT follow their own rules as last i checked using deceit in ur transactions/agreements is FRAUD! yet they get away with it daily because they own the system and make the rules.... why should anyone bother with rules/laws that are not easily understood by everyone... they are created for the sole intent of controlling ppl who dont have the time and/or interest in digging through their shit to find at best partial freedom from physical tyranny that expands more and more daily.... dont believe me, they just created another excuse to pull u over and harass u this month... tell me if u can guess what it is...

also as far as the universal ability to use contracts/agreements, thats not a problem and have no issue with ppl using them, however i should be able to refuse any contract/agreement , the fact that u have to inform others of anything provides a mere nuesense in the fact that what i do is none of their business if im choosing to separate entirely their agreements/contracts are null and void do to the fact that i am no longer representing the chattel that the agreements/contracts were made with in the first place...

i agree 100% they can take their fiat money and entire system and stick it where the sun dont shine... however when they have laid claim to just about every piece of land and removed things like the homestead act http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homestead_Act ... how are we supposed to acquire land without being a slave for a good portion of our lives so we can buy a plot of land just to go through the painful process of getting a land patent that can be DENIED by the very government we are trying to escape...

as far as thinkfree, i have not been there in a long time, i was also attacked and instead of answering my questions they felt it more important to judge me based on my grammatical errors... in which case i felt no need to continue going there as they are just going to be condescending and ignore any questions i had... if all they are going to do is act as tho they are smarter do to spelling everything perfectly and just tell me to research it all myself then i figure that place is a waste of time and i went back to doing just that , researching it myself... because its obvious finding help on the net isnt really that easy, hence why i like this forum so much, at least here information is shared freely and theres no drama regarding getting info ur looking for... is it really to much to ask to be able to find places where there is detailed how tos without all the bs from arrogant ppl who feel theyd rather horde knowledge for themselves so they can share the same feeling of delusions of grandeurs the elite have... its sad but there are too many ppl on the net and in general with this mind set

as far as the statement rob made,i believe it was in The Magnificent Deception video where he said , "you discard it like you would a tissue" ie throw it away.... been a while since i watched any of his material but im pretty sure that was the video he said that in

im still interested in getting the fee schedule to work and cant find any how tos on it and as i dont really understand the whole workings of the system as well as those who have been researching it for 10+ years i would like to see how it works and possibly get it working my self just to be a thorn in their side when they decide to be a thorn in mine... also i have not heard of anyone having any success using the accepted for value method , ie stores wont take promissory notes that arent frn and neither will the banks.... and they consider it fraud using checks this way also... ie ppl have supposedly gone to jail for it...

glad to hear u havnt been shooting ppl, tbh neither have i, as a matter of fact i think guns etc should be done away with, however if ppl will not refrain from imposing their will on me using physical violence then i may be left with choosing to do the same to protect myself... also regarding police and brute force, theres a video on the vlog thats made by an ex narc, the one that teaches ppl how to hide drugs, he gives a fine example, cops become cops for adrenaline rush and feeling of superiority... not to serve and protect... ex cops have said this to and around me also... so with this information its clearly evident that they can give 2 shits about the rules/laws and just like to be pricks/assholes to ppl... sure there are good cops, about as many good cops as there are good ppl seen as bad or labeled criminal do to unfortunate circumstances.. also with all the videos in the abuse of power thread its clearly shown these police are as much if not more so a threat to us then the very criminals they are there to protect us from.... the point im trying to make is law is irrelevant when the table is tilted in someones favor... there is no even ground regardless if ur in the system or not... does not matter if uve correctly removed urself from the system if u come across that one cop who can care less about the fact that ur name is flagged untouchable and decides to beat the shit out of u for talking back.... the videos i mentioned earlier show that there are indeed cops like this and sadly there are many more then we have videos on this site...

we are dealing with TYRANNY! ie rules are irrelevant when ur the only one who follows the rules...

as far as testing the courts, if u can afford their ludicrous fines then by all means do so, just be sure not to piss them off to the point where they imprison u, im sure ull do much better then i did, sadly ive lost all patience with these ppl and their overgrown monopoly game i never asked to play in the first place....

i see no reason why i should have to exchange fancy letters over any period of time, as a simple "NO. GO AWAY" should suffice , if that isnt enough to get the cops off my nuts well i guess im screwed...

the whole freedom subject is divided into many different mechanisms and mannerism and has become more about opinion then fact... im sure that we can all agree, freedom truly is another word for nothing left to lose... because as long as we keep ourselves chained be it to material nonsense or ideological bullshit we will never be free...

-the condition of being free; the power to act or speak or think without externally imposed restraints

-exemption: immunity from an obligation or duty
wordnet.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

-Political freedom is the absence of interference with the sovereignty of an individual by the use of coercion or aggression. In this sense ‘freedom’ refers solely to the relation of men to other men, and the only infringement on it is coercion by men.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom (political)

-Freedom is a very broad concept that has been given numerous different interpretations by different philosophies and schools of thought. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom (philosophy)

-The state of being free, of not being imprisoned or enslaved; The state of being free, unconstrained; the lack of a specific constraint, or of constraints in general
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/freedom

-the ability and possibility to choose between alternative courses of action.
www.slp.duq.edu/rentschler/ETHIC/Vocabulary.htm

with so many definitions on what freedom is... why is it ive yet to see one place on this planet where these definitions are truly present... amerika does not hold true to the definitions of freedom and therefore is not free... so what place is?

Posts: 33

on a related note, FBI was making moves today, with UBS, to find and shut down offshore accounts of those people who like to keep their money away from the federal government.

Posts: 140

the us is closing up, it will be a police state before anyone even realizes it, and even then the majority will be blind to it. im out of here, i personally dont have any assets, i have a computer, a guitar and my clothes, and ill be damned if im going to pay anything for that. just need to save for a 1 way ticket...