I am totally open with this information, even showing police and anyone else who'll actually look at it. The offer's still open to Persianpaladin I will be going down to London on Monday if you're down that way.
I don't think so. Reading Ed's posts on the thread on the other forum he is just going from what he knows. I made friends recently with a guy who used to race cars and his reaction at first was the same as Ed's. When he had a go in the Passat with and without the cell attached he was literally banging his head on the wall! It shouldn't work.
The trouble is that the results really do fly in the face of what people have learned. Hopefully Ed will get in touch and we can use some of the fancy machines he has access to. Many other people are experimenting with this, I'm a member of five yahoo groups and two other forums full of people making odd stainless steel devices!
The hydrogen/oxygen mix going into my air intake improves the car's performance twofold. Most people think that you want to seperate the hydrogen because that's the stuff that burns but split water is a very special gas, with hydrogen and oxygen in the perfect mixture. The welder doesn't need it's gas to be mixed with oxygen it just comes pure out of the cell.
I'll just mention that petrol is a hydrocarbon, basically hydrogen and carbon, these need oxygen to burn hence the air intake on an engine. Water is H and O without the carbon.
Thanks for putting it out there paladin I just hope people read my stuff and can see how it works and then improve on it for themselves. The age of aquarius dawns!
Can a car be run totally on brown gas? For example, turning off the fuel pump and running the gas straight into the air intake? Have you tried this? what do you think would happen with compression, say with a turbo or super charger?
Can a car be run totally on brown gas? For example, turning off the fuel pump and running the gas straight into the air intake? Have you tried this? what do you think would happen with compression, say with a turbo or super charger?
Adam
Nope, if you look at his website it is advertised as something which works with existing fuel.
I posted this on another forum in the UK and i got a response by somebody called LightningEd who works with IC engines. Here it is: -
Quote:
Ok I have now read those "reports" So it looks to me that this system generates power stores it to the batteries then generates on demand by the already stored energy some H/O2 gas that is then injected into the engine.
This totally agrees with what I have said,
1, there is not enough power to produce this in realtime. - here the alternator is uprated - By how much?
2, there needs to be a store for the energy - lead acid batteries. - this implies that the alternator cannot supply enough power on its own. - As i already said.
3, the system will be limited to the time taken to charge the batteries enough to produce the hydrogen/oxygen gas, and once used up you will have to drive without it again (using extra fuel to charge the batteries again) untill you use it the next time.
This is nothing more than a hybrid. Its a million miles away from a car powered by water.
Quote:
Now I have stopped laughing - seriously it really is a joke here is why (quite strange as I have just had to write an almost exact post in another forum - coincidence?!)...
First of all to produce hydrogen and oxygen requires alot of energy. If done correctly it can be relativly efficient BUT let me show you this:
1KG of hydrogen Hydrogen has an energy content when reacting with oxygen of 140,000,000 Joules per kilo. One Joule is 1W/Second. So 140,000,000/3600 (1hr) = 38.8 Kw/hr.
Simply by the law of conservation of energy, (and the fact you produce oxygen which you dont want for this process) therefor you can say it takes at LEAST 38.8 KW (+inefficiences and wasted by products) of energy to produce this 1KG of hydrogen.
Let me put it to you this way, an internal combustion engine in a car is typically around 32% efficient. So, if it were possible to run an IC engine directly of hydrogen 68% would be lost as heat etc (im simplfing allot here) of this 32% of wasted power part of this will be used to drive the alternator, which is what generates the electrical power for your car. Typically these have an output of 55-85Amps or lets say a MAX of 3672000 Joules/hr
If we take a typical car engine of around 80BHP that equates to around 58 Kw of usefull power so lets now take our 32% efficiency, and this tells us approximately that our 80hp car at its max power rating requires 181KW of energy. So with 1KG of hydrogen = 38.8Kw, we need 4.5KG of hydrogen to last 1hr at full power.
To produce this 4.5KG we need if we could do it 100% efficient 651,600,000 joules of electricity umm but holdon - the cars alternator can only provide 3,672,000 =
PROBLEM!!!!!!!!
Its simply not possible to "simply" convert a car to run from water - unless you happen to own a personal nuclear power station inthe boot of your car.
Ed
you don't need 651,600,000 joules of electricity if you treat those pipes like a capacitor. run a 21 khz wave through those pipes and see how much you produce.
you don't need 651,600,000 joules of electricity if you treat those pipes like a capacitor. run a 21 khz wave through those pipes and see how much you produce.
ala: Wine Glass meets Opera Singer.
Can you say: Resonance?
Tripled
This is where it's going now. Nitrous solenoids and modified spark plugs are on their way. 21 khz is the magic number so I'm told, hopefully very soon we'll have a totally adjustable pulse circuit. I'm glad you saw the funny side in the joules statement
Have you done any experiments with this stuff Tripled, I'd very much like to know?
adam2 I have tried it but I'm losing too much gas. I've basically got a hole drilled in my air box just before it goes into the manifold. To make it work we're gonna need the pulse control system as tripled says above (I've known this for a while but with no real clue how to do it until yesterday after talking to some nitrous dudes!) Also the gas doesn't need an air mix as it's already ideal, so really we need a kind of vacuum in the manifold and cylinders. Perhaps even, as I said above, with some modified spark plugs so we can inject the gas directly into the cylinders with the spark, kerrrboooom!!
We tried a few times (not enough obviously) with a 5hp 4stroke lawnmower engine. I had it running for a few seconds but very unstable and lots of bangs and a bit of fire. I've been told to try the same gas with no pressure (as ever) but without any extra air and mixing it with the exhaust gas.
The boost system works a treat but with a little more work it'll be water-powered-cars-ville (probably not be able to sell those though )
I realise the gas does not need any air, I mean to say run a closed system through the air intake of the vehicle, with it sucking the gas only. I guess the hard part is creating the vacuum. Have you seen the joecell videos on google video? If you do a search for "joecell" or "joe cell" you will find one particular video with some guy taking about the timing of the distributor. I have also heard some discussion relating to the frequency of the cell playing an important role as well.
Good luck in your endeavours
Wed Aug 23, 2006 5:16 am
madthumbs
Joined: 22 Feb 2006 Posts: 8599 Location: Fingerlakes - NY usa
Although reading about joe's cell is what inspired me to start all this, I'd like to clarify that is not what I'm doing.
The design is identical (pretty much) to joe's cell but I'm not charging water*. My cell is connected to the battery all the time that the car is running and electrolysising the water to make hydrogen and oxygen gas.
*The first cell made was charged like joe's cell and we got it to a stage two, possibly stage three, the water when unconnected from the power supply continued to make bubbles for about two days if I remember right. But this was never fitted to a car. I think there's a case for joe's cell and I certainly wouldn't dismiss it as a means to powere a car but we preferred to go for something that we could better understand. Namely, putting explosive gas in a combustion engine!
adam2 I have tried it but I'm losing too much gas. I've basically got a hole drilled in my air box just before it goes into the manifold. To make it work we're gonna need the pulse control system as tripled says above (I've known this for a while but with no real clue how to do it until yesterday after talking to some nitrous dudes!) Also the gas doesn't need an air mix as it's already ideal, so really we need a kind of vacuum in the manifold and cylinders. Perhaps even, as I said above, with some modified spark plugs so we can inject the gas directly into the cylinders with the spark, kerrrboooom!!
i'm not sure if your aware of this little "secret" but most "modern" engine's now fire on opposing- cylinders. (At the same time) Now if you can make your own plug (there is one out there recently patented) with a wee little chamber, and run the advance plug-spark through the water there, you end up with your "hydro-gas" which then gets injected prior to the "firing-spark" on that cylinder. No need for a control circuit then with that amount off energy from the coil.
SIDE NOTE: Amazing how all of these "experts" claiming it run's off the battery, and that the system cannot produce enough "power" for the reaction, due to the alternator not producing enough "power" yet! they conveniently leave out the obvious fact that EVERY car provides it's own "high-power" output device, namely a COIL!
Quote:
We tried a few times (not enough obviously) with a 5hp 4stroke lawnmower engine. I had it running for a few seconds but very unstable and lots of bangs and a bit of fire. I've been told to try the same gas with no pressure (as ever) but without any extra air and mixing it with the exhaust gas.
hmm, did you forget to adjust the timing on the lawn mower? it need's to be damn near top dead centre. you may need to do some "manual" adjusting of the mechanical link to get it done. Try the timing first before jumping all over the place to get it working.
Quote:
The boost system works a treat but with a little more work it'll be water-powered-cars-ville (probably not be able to sell those though )
You got that right! Think of that French farmer recently being charged for not paying fuel tax.
you don't need 651,600,000 joules of electricity if you treat those pipes like a capacitor. run a 21 khz wave through those pipes and see how much you produce.
ala: Wine Glass meets Opera Singer.
Can you say: Resonance?
Tripled
This is where it's going now. Nitrous solenoids and modified spark plugs are on their way. 21 khz is the magic number so I'm told, hopefully very soon we'll have a totally adjustable pulse circuit. I'm glad you saw the funny side in the joules statement
Have you done any experiments with this stuff Tripled, I'd very much like to know?
Can a car be run totally on brown gas? For example, turning off the fuel pump and running the gas straight into the air intake? Have you tried this? what do you think would happen with compression, say with a turbo or super charger?
Adam
hmm, turbo is the BIG question?...
i'm thinking i'll will need a second chamber to come on line, linked in with the boost, or something similar, or just have the regular gas come on line for it.
I'm still flucking around with this issue. I would dearing love to get my GN working with this.
)
